“NIGHTTIME'S MY PREROGATIVE, THAT'S WHEN I DO THINGS.” 

D Britton. 

"Most of us live in the belief that our Police are honest,

trustworthy, well we have to, without that confidence our

very sense of security is threatened." Cameron Bennett, Reporter.

"The Integrity of the Police is priceless." Rob Robertson, Police Commissioner.

Contrary to what police so often imply, self-defence is certainly legal. Section 48 of the NZ Crimes Act states that "Everyone is justified, in using, in the defence of himself or another, such force as, in the circumstances as he believes them to be, it is reasonable to use".

This is exactly the same law used by police to justify them having the right to carry and use firearms for their own protection yet there is nothing in the Act which gives police special rights over and above those of the citizen. Clearly EVERYONE, no matter what their job, no matter who they are, has the same right to self-defence under New Zealand law as the police have. What is missing of course is the level playing field, the ability to use equal means. This, however, is purely due to how police policy currently interprets the law to disadvantage the law-abiding citizen. What seems to have been forgotten is that internal police policies do not have any real legal status, so the use of policy to justify restricting a legal right is almost certainly illegal. Be that as it may, it is high time police throughout New Zealand were reminded that they do not yet have any special right to better self-defence than the people they are sworn to serve and that, no matter what their personal feelings on the matter, our common law right of self-defence is precisely that - a legally enforceable right.

Donald Peter Britton (Sworn)

That is my full name. I reside locally and am currently unemployed; I am in transition. Earlier this year I owned a property at Makirikiri Valley and sold that property to Jack Van Der Lubbe, or Sandra Van Der Lubbe, but Jack came up I’m not sure when it was, March maybe. When I sold the farm there was everything I owned there virtually, such as sheep, horses, shed, posts, timber, stove, everything on the farm virtually and deer.

On the evening of 18 May of this year I went to the property the night before the incident to get some posts, rammer, wire strainers and fencing gear. Whilst I was there I spoke to Jack for quite a while. In relation to me retrieving the property nothing was said, a few things came into it at that time. I said I bought a place down the road, that is what I wanted the property for and Jack gave me the third degree of what I bought etc.

The following morning 19 May I was in the shed at my home address and Mrs. Van Der Lubbe came round. I was laying in bed and I sleep with the door open and she walked straight in and threw a piece of paper onto the workbench which is above my head and said this is a trespass notice and started to insult me and provoke me for some strange reason and said you are lazy and all sorts of things. I took her word for what she was saying and tried to argue my case such as what are you on about, I told Jack the night before I would be up in the morning to get my gear. As a result of her coming to my place it took me probably a good minute or so before I could get out of bed because I didn’t have any pants on, only a nightshirt. I jumped out of bed as she was walking down the drive yelling. I was trying to explain to her that I told Jack that I would be up in the morning to retrieve my gear for the property down the road. From there she just kept hurling abuse and trying to provoke me and I felt flustered and picked up a piece of steel on the back of the ute and said piss off and there was a lady asleep in the house next door and a mother and child and she left finally.

After she left I went back and got changed. I subsequently went out to the property and got a friend to give me a lift with the longdrop. I needed a lift with some of the heavy stuff. I went out to the property. I went in my Subaru. When I got there, I looked up at the house, I lived there for six years and looked up and there was no one home, there didn’t appear to be anybody there and I didn’t notice the gate was locked. I looked at it and studied it and saw a chain around it and a big padlock and meantime Tom was just sitting in the car and I looked around to see how I could get into the gate and beside the gate was a six by one, about eight feet long. I put it under the gate and started to try and lift the gate off the hinges and looked up at the house and saw there was no life there and the board broke. I then looked over the fence and there was an eight by two. I climbed over the gate on the hinges side and got the eight by two. I climbed back over the fence and started to try and lift the gate off the hinges. I knew what the gate was like because I hung the gate for him as a favour about 3 weeks before. While I was trying to ease the gate off a yellow Mazda ute went past with a man about fifty years old in it. I was crouched down and looked around and he just carried on and my ute was opposite but enough room there for him to go past. I looked up at the house again to see whether anybody was there and to check another vehicle going past and there was still nothing. I eventually got the gate to come off the hinges. I opened the gate still padlocked onto the other post at the other end. I walked back over to the ute, looked around to see if there was any deer close by the gate which wouldn’t come out during the day. I looked at the house again, still no life and just started to drive up towards the house which was where all my gear was stashed.

As I approached the second bend there was a bang. It sounded as though someone banged on top of the roof - dooomb. I looked up and saw Jack about ten feet from the end of the post where there was rails and a post. Tom said, "fuck he is shooting at us." I said, "don’t worry about it," because I thought he must have come from somewhere and fired a shot to be funny or scare me or something. I didn’t feel scared or anything at that stage because Jack had done something similar like that once before, but the window was down on my ute. It all happened as I was coming into the bend and I navigated the track again thinking he was just clowning around and he fired another shot, bang again and I felt a jar under my feet. I thought the bullet had gone down under the car and it was a vibration on the ground. At the same time the car stopped. I thought it had just stalled. I stuck my head out the window and I said I’m just coming to get my gear, why don’t you shoot me in the head, because I still thought he was clowning around. I wound the car over and it wouldn’t go. So I hopped out and Jack then...when I hopped out I looked up and saw Jack move over to the post and then take aim, like more accurately but by then I was out of the ute and had turned my back on him. He was yelling I’ll kill you and all sorts of verbal things, seemed pretty hyped up. I looked under the bonnet and couldn’t see why the thing had stopped, must have jarred something or whatever. Then Tom got out and came around the front of the ute to see what the story was and sat there for a minute and came out. While I was trying to find out why the ute wouldn’t go Tom spotted the bullet hole in the front of the ute, the second bullet hole. He said I think he is going to kill us. I then had a funny feeling on the back of my neck and back, strange sort of feeling. I then thought that Jack probably would shoot me in the back of the head or neck when I told him to because I thought he was clowning around. A lot of thoughts raced through my mind at this stage. I had seen Jack before shoot at things, deer for instance when he has been exited and clean missed them. Then I turned around and pointed at him because I knew I was safer facing the guy and said, you idiot you have shot my ute. The ute wouldn’t go at this stage. He yelled something at Tom and I just got back in the ute thinking darn it I can’t get my gear and Tom got back in the ute and I let it run back down through the gate and stuck the gate on the hinges. I never saw Jack again after that; he disappeared again. I started to walk up the road and thought I’d better do something and Allan James stopped and picked me up, the ute couldn’t go anywhere it was shot up.

When I left my address that morning first I had a .22 behind the seat, when I went round to pick Tom up I thought I’d better throw my rifle out of the car because when I go to get the gear if Jack is at home and seriously clowning around, he might conjure up something so I took it out of the ute.

You have to remember the night before when I said I would be up in the morning to pick up my gear; it was like a bolt from the blue. Jack is in Court today seated next to Mr. Brosnahan. Mr. Van Der Lubbe had a .243 calibre rifle. When he fired the shots he would have been maybe 30 or 50 yards away from me, it is hard to say. As I started to approach and he shot the first bullet hole. I didn’t retrieve any property on this day as I had no vehicle and as a result of my going there I have been charged myself with trespass.

Cross-examination by Mr. Brosnahan.

Your contract for the sale of your farm to Mrs. Van Der Lubbe was entered into by you on Oct of last year?... Could have been I don’t know. And you signed that contract at a time when you thought you were buying another business or property?...No that’s wrong. Sometime after you signed the agreement and shortly before it was due to settle in December you indicated you were refusing to settle and wouldn’t move out of the farm, is that right?...I didn’t particularly want to sell the place to start with.  (So he listed it for sale with Elders Real Estate.)

(Is that perjury or what?)

And do you behave a bit strangely when you are depressed?...No not necessarily strangely. You do things you regret and things you don’t really want to do, is that what you are saying?...Well I’ll tell you something, are you referring to signing my property over? Tell me what you are referring to. You said when your head cleared, I’ve asked you what you meant and you said you were depressed and I am asking you what impact you’re saying it had on you?...The affect was that in reality, right, I had done something stupid by referring to Jack. By referring to Jack?...By offering Jack my property when he had been asking me on and off for years to sell it right, land is like a love affair.

(I said just once to him, “If you ever want to sell it let me know.”)

So you regretted having offered Jack your property, is that what you are saying. Because it was something stupid, is that what you’re saying?...I actually didn’t want to befriend the guy right, but I had told him prior to his coming up the morning before, forget it now I’ve changed my mind. Are you saying that happened before you signed the contract?...That’s correct. I see. But you did sign the contract?...I did sign the contract because he said, strike while the irons hot and the thing is he actually brought his father and a typewriter and an agreement. And you signed the contract?...I signed it. Right. Now that we’ve established that with great difficulty. Before you were due to be paid and move out of the property, did you say you had changed your mind and didn’t want to sell?...Yes I said that. In fact did you refuse to move out and refuse to sell?...I tried to talk to Jack actually about it. Did you refuse to sell and refuse to move out?...Yes. And you were very bitter and angry over the fact that the Van Der Lubbes, or Mrs. in particular, would not release you from the contract weren’t you?...I felt befriended. You felt befriended?...Yea. What does that mean, does that mean that they were being friendly to you or you felt you had no friends?...I had been befriended right. I don’t know what befriended means in that context?...Prior to me talking to Jack about this I had rung him and said I might come and see you, I need a holiday. So did you feel angry and upset you weren’t being released from the contract?...I’ll tell you what happened. I rung Jack and said, look I’ve have made a mistake right, I wasn’t thinking straight and he said yea you signed it, you signed it. He said, will you pay me $20,000 and I said anything you like. What do you want me to say? Right, so were you upset that you weren’t being released from the contract?...Um no, I accepted after a while. That was after Court proceedings were issued and you had been served and it was coming up for Court action for an order to force you to sell that was where it had reached hadn’t it?...Put it this way, I thought I’d better do something because he started going round to the house that I stayed in the shed at the time of this incident, the lady’s got a child and he was stopping her on the walkway on the way home and asking all sorts of questions about me. Started going to another property of mine and talking to the woman in the house but would not talk to me. So were you upset that you weren’t being let out of the contract and angry?...No I wasn’t angry, disappointed. So did you at one stage go to see Mr. Van Der Lubbe to try and persuade him to let you out of the contract at Ballance Street?...I had talked to Jack on the phone on a couple of occasions and got my lawyer to talk to him. Is the answer to my question yes?...Yes I saw him. Did he at your request sit in your vehicle to discuss the issue?...Yes he did.

And did it become clear to you in the course of that discussion that he wasn’t going to wear it and he wasn’t going let you off?...That was clear when he sat in the vehicle with the door open and didn’t look me in the eye. All right, so that became clear to you?...Didn’t seem like the guy I knew as a friend. And in the course of the discussion did you make threats on his life and his families life?...No, I did not. Well eventually through Court action you were forced to sell the property weren’t you?...That is correct, it didn’t get to Court. You saw the writing on the wall and were told you were going to lose?...Well the thing is how do you know how it will go, you know you wrote it up yourself and there was some pretty funny stuff in there, threatening to sue me for $20,000 for a little bach and $20,000 for this and that. It is scary for a guy with out any gold. So the upshot of it all was you gave in and sold the property?...That’s right. And that was after you had taken your own legal advise wasn’t it?...Well that sounds okay but Jack altered a bit of legal advise, altered a bit of the legal document. I’m just asking whether you gave in after you had taken your own legal advise, the answer is either yes or no?...No it’s is not that simple. You can explain it afterwards but did you take your own legal advise?...You have the right to stand in this Courtroom and if this man here says there is a bomb here and paid you to leave would you leave?...Yes, yes, yes. The thing is you know yourself you were attempting to sue me for $60,000; I had to, had to take that advise. I was really just asking if you’d had some advise?...I showed the contract that Jack had altered to my lawyer but he said it meant nothing, I had signed it and I didn’t want to lose everything. And that is how you felt, at risk of losing everything?...Correct. And with that feeling in your mind and with the advice you had been given you sold the farm and moved out?...That’s right. But you were very, very angry about it weren’t you?...No, no. Quite pleased about it?...No not pleased but I had to accept it.

Lets come to the night before the incident, the subject of these charges...Don’t you want to know the two months previous when I used to up and ride my horse there and take stock and stuff, we got on quite all right. Sandra Van Der Lubbe gave me a meal. Now on the night before you had gone up to get some other gear?...Correct. And you got the posts and fencing equipment that night?...Right, well it wasn’t that night it was in the afternoon and it ran into night talking. So there had been not a problem you say in the intervening period between you and the Van Der Lubbes?.. Correct. And you even had a meal there?...Correct. And were you wanting to lease a couple of acres of land from them?...No Jack said prior signing this place, you can build something up on the back there on the flat, go on mate, buddy sort of thing.

In my depressed state I didn’t worry too much about it. I mentioned it when I signed this thing. For me I take things as words not times and date's and writings. I said I wouldn’t mind keeping my pine trees down the road, my plantation. He said, yes they are only scungy pines anyway, you can have them. And he said, we will give you a 999-year lease on it and I said yes that is pretty good okay then. Okay, so were you wanting to lease a couple of acres of land down the road?...Jack’s suggestion prior to signing. As at the night or afternoon before, had a problem developed over the leasing of that land?...Well there wasn’t a problem but the thing is Jack said, draw up an agreement on it at Tripes and it is all legal sort of thing, which I had done but that was probably a month or so back. Well were there any problems about that lease on the night before, the afternoon or night before?...Well I don’t know because you are asking a question that involves a lot of things. Coming back to these pines and bit of land Jack suggested, I took as his word, it went from a 999 year lease on this land down to, oh you can pay me $2000 for it now and then down to instead of taking $2000 he’ll take the remainder of my deer. I’ve been breeding Fallow deer for eight years or more and I have been breeding some pretty coloured deer. The 20 unusual coloured deer I was going to keep, then this night before this incident, I said just prior to that I said, okay I’ll give you the 20 deer of my choice which I have a receipt for, for the pines and the lease. Jack said yea, okay then. This was the afternoon before?..The afternoon before, I said after picking up the material from down the road and having a general discussion, oh yea, what about this lease. He said, Oh there’s too many mistakes in it. I had already had it altered once before because he said that and I, if you don’t want to sign the lease I might as well take back the 20 deer of my choice. Jack said, and this is when he started getting irritated, I’ve sold those. Looking back over the last month or so when I have been there riding my horse, talking to him, going for a walk with him, hanging his gate, doing different things for him, it’s not a bad place to be, I still have to get my stock on there, he then turned around and said I have sold those deer. I said no you haven’t I saw them there today and I said I’ve still got a receipt for them. Then, that is how that incident arose over the signing of this lease. So can we now answer my question of was there a problem the night before about the lease?...I didn’t see it as any problem, it was just whether he gives back my 20 deer of my choice that I’ve got a receipt for or he wants to swap it for the pine trees on that block. Was there an argument?...There wasn’t an argument. There was not?...No. Up until then over the preceding month or so you had been up there riding quite happily with the Van Der Lubbes?...No I rode on my own.

But you were up there with them quite happily and you were up there riding on their property?...Yes. You’d been there for a meal?..Yes. You’d been up and collected some of your materials?...That’s right, some of the stuff from the house.

And your posts and everything on that afternoon you had all loaded up didn’t you?...No, no I’ve got truckloads of posts there. Everything had been relatively harmonious hadn’t it?...That’s right. There was no argument that afternoon?...No but Jack seemed a bit annoyed when I said I still had the receipt for the deer, the tempo changed in his voice, the tempo changed when he started questioning me about that I bought a property down the road. And did your tempo change?...No. And did you make any threats yourself that day?...No. Did you say that if you didn’t get the lease signed there would be drastic consequences?...No. I said if you don’t sign the thing within two weeks I’ll know you have been having me on. It had been dragging on for a couple of months. Did you say you would be taking drastic action?...No. You left there that night and everything apart from the change in tempo of Jack’s voice, everything was just as it had been over the previous month or so?...As I was there. It must have come as a complete shock to you the next morning to receive a trespass notice?...That is correct! Because there had been absolutely nothing that had happened to prompt it in your mind?...Not a thing. Not a thing. You hadn’t had an argument with Mrs. Van Der Lubbe?...No. So you received the trespass notice, she told you what it was and put it on the bench or desk?...She threw it. She threw it. And did you pick it up?...No, I didn’t I was getting an ear bashing. An ear bashing. And then did you say anything while the ear bashing was going on?...It was pretty hard to get a word in, but...You seem quite good at it, did you fail that day?...I said don’t be stupid, I said, I told Jack I’d be up in the morning to get the gear. I was dumbfounded. And you got out of bed, told her to get out. She was, it was hard to get a word in. You did get out of bed?...Eventually. Did you tell her to get out?...Did I? Yes. No the only time I told her to get out was when she was raving when I was walking down the path. And you were in your night attire at this stage?...Nightshirt. And you’re following Mrs. Van Der Lubbe down the path?...I was trying to explain I told Jack I was going to get up this morning. She’s heading to her car, which had been parked on the road?...Yea the car was along the road a little bit to the right, to the left. And as you walked past your ute, was the ute on the way, on the path where she was walking?...In the drive by the house. So did you have to walk past the ute?...Did I have to?...Yes. Yea I walked past the ute. Did she have to walk past the ute?...She had to walk past the ute.

And as she walked past it you picked up this steel bar from the back of the ute?...No. That sounds good, a steel bar, I told you before when she was barracking me I sort of looked around like this, you know I couldn’t shut her up and it was right beside where the ute and the corner of the house, there was a lady in there with a kid sleeping. This is what half past eight in the morning?...She can sleep as she likes I don’t question her sleeping. As I couldn’t stop her raving on, there is a bit of reinforcing that long, it could have been a feather, it could have been a newspaper. I just reached down and picked it up and said, piss off. So you waved it around but you didn’t mean anything by it and she wandered off to her car, got in and drove away?...I don’t know about wandered off she I don’t know. She carried on, got in the car and drove away. And that was when you picked up the rock and threw it at the car?...What rock? You deny doing that?...You asked me that once before. Somebody did. (McGillivray)There was no rock at all. Right fine. And was that when. There’s a concrete fireplace and a piece of lawn not any rocks though. Was that when you threatened to kill her and Jack and the family?...I’ve never done that in my life. Never done that in your life?...That’s right. So it didn’t happen on that occasion?...It never happened.

(Underlined. “Donald ended up by saying he would blow the whole family away. And that a threat had been made.”)

But you did know by that stage that you had been served with a trespass notice?...I went back to get changed and had a look at it. Well let’s come now to your arrival at the Makirikiri property. Yep. You arrive at the gate down off the Makirikiri Valley road and you can see the gates padlocked. Is that right?...Yea, which is unusual. You know by that stage that you’ve got a trespass notice ?...Yes I did. To me, to me we had a verbal agreement that I was supposed to go in the morning and get my stuff. Hadn’t Mrs. Van Der Lubbe told you at Willis St. to get one of your brothers to come up and get it?...No. You usually carry a firearm in your ute don’t you?...Oh sometimes yea. More often than not?...Oh I wouldn’t say that. Oh come Mr. Britton you usually carry in your ute don’t you?...Do you usually carry a saddle with you? I don’t usually carry a rifle in my ute, I’m living in town. Well on the day in question you drove to Mr. Knox’s place didn’t you?...Yea. And you left a firearm there?...That’s the one. Where did you get that firearm?...It was in my ute at the time but I don’t usually carry a firearm. But on that day it had been in your ute when you left the Willis St. property?...Yea it was that. And when you got to Mr. Knox’s you decided you would leave it there?...Correct. So clearly it had been in your ute at the time you got into it to leave the Willis St. property?...Yea it probably was yea. And you’re a keen hunting man its part of your life isn’t it, hunting and shooting and things?...What do you mean hunting and shooting and things. Deer hunting? You’ve got a number of firearms, you have had a number of firearms?...I’ve had one or two.

And you usually keep one in your ute don’t you?...I don’t usually keep one in my ute. You want to know why the rifle was in my ute? Because I got a spiker about a week before. Would you consider yourself a fairly volatile person?...What do you mean by that? Get angry and exited a bit?...Get exited. stand up for my rights more or less. So when you arrived at the property with the gate padlocked you decided that you would take, (a), no notice of the padlock, (b), no notice of the trespass notice served on you, and try and jemmy the gate off its hinges?...No that’s not exactly right, I expected Jack to be there and talk to Jack, and out of the blue came Sandra around with the errand. Well you did jemmy the gate off its hinges?...I levered it off. I had to get my gear it was fairly crucial. I was just moving out of the shed into a house in Ikitara Rd. Jack asked me could they use my table and chairs and they didn’t have any. And get some of my gear. So you did leaver the gate off its hinges?...Yea I levered it off its hinges. And you did drive up the driveway?...Yea that’s right. And just where a bouts was it again by reference to photograph 9 that your vehicle was when you first heard the bang?...About along to this corner where the piles are stacked. Where those piles are stacked. The white things shown on the left hand side are piles, right?...So that’s approximately where the vehicle was when the first shot was fired?...Yea, I was just about to navigate that corner. And the second shot, where was the vehicle when it stalled, shot and stalled?...It would have been um, as you can see from that corner facing the house. And is the house directly behind the photographer?..Is the house directly behind the photographer?...Yea more or less. So was the second shot was once you had rounded the corner and were facing directly up to about the position of the photographer?...I don’t know, it was directly in line with Jack, he was at the end of this fence, it runs to a big Macrocapa tree to the right. It must have been out to the right. Well you’d rounded the corner?...Yea. Had you said anything to him at that stage?...I actually hadn’t spoken. Well when you did stop, did you get out of the vehicle?...When it stopped I stuck my head out the vehicle and said, you idiot I’ve come up to get some of my gear. When was it that you said, I’ll shoot you in the head with my triple two?...Oh I didn’t say anything like that. What about I’ll put a bullet in your head from my triple two?...No there was nothing like that even said. Was Mr. Van Der Lubbe telling you to fuck off get off the property?...I, I, what happened was when I said that...When you said what?...When I said, you idiot I’ve only come up to get some gear as I climbed out the vehicle I said why don’t you shoot me in the head. I thought he was clowning around. And did you threaten him at all at that stage?...No way. But you’re saying he threatened you?...Threaten me; he shot at me.

Verbally did he threaten you as well?...He was yelling all sorts of guff when I got out of the vehicle but I turned my back on him. And did Mr. Knox get out of the vehicle?...Not straight away, I think he was too scared to. But did he?...Eventually? Up the top there before you went back down, did Mr. Knox get out of the vehicle?...I told you that before, he found the bullet hole. Did you do a bit of a dance around your vehicle saying, I’ve got you know, you’ve made a fatal mistake?...No, no, I said, you idiot you shot my ute, you shot my ute. You didn’t say I’ve got you now you’ve shot my ute?...No, you idiot you shot my ute. I might have said you idiot you’ve done it now shooting my ute. And then you backed down the drive?...Yep. Sort of freewheeling were you?...Yes the motor wouldn’t run. And out of the gate with the vehicle ending up as its shown on photograph one, is that right?...No, no I pushed it there. When you took the gate off its hinges, which way did you swing it on the chain in or out?...Say that again. When you took the gate off its hinges which way did you swing it, did you take it into the property?...Into the property I lifted it up and carried it in. Carried it in. Yes thank you Mr. Britton.”

(67 lies in that lot. How things have changed, the first time he was required to plead back in 1969 he said “guilty” because he thought that he would be committing perjury if he pled not guilty.)

A series of lies designed to mislead the jury into coming to the wrong verdict. Perjury and attempting to pervert the course of justice. The police are only interested in perjury if it suits their current agenda.

Thomas Leonard Knox.

That is my full name. I currently reside in Wanganui. On the morning of Tuesday 19 May of this year Donald Britton came to my place and at the time he was driving a red Subaru ute. He asked me to help him get some of his property from his old farm. The current owners of his old farm are the Van Der Lubbes. Before we left our place Mr. Britton left some of his property behind. That was a rifle and a sleeping bag. On route to the farm property he said he had a trespass order given to him that morning. When we got to the property, Donald got out and lifted the gate off the hinges. Once Donald had taken the gate off the hinges we started moving up the drive and got to the second bend and a shot hit the side of the vehicle. Looking at photo 9 the bend, which has the white piles on the left hand side, is the bend we got to when the shot was fired. That shot hit the vehicle directly behind the left side of the passengers side where I was sitting and I said to Donald we had been shot at and he said it was only a warning shot (why) and I said like hell and we carried on moving and the second shot came through the front of the wagon. Looking at photo 3 just after the tray cover is the hole of the first bullet and looking at photo 2 shows where the second bullet struck. When the bullet struck the vehicle died and wouldn’t go and Donald got out to check it and told me to get out of the truck and see what had been done and I said no way and I was frightened I was going to be shot at again.

And when I got out I lifted the bonnet and the bullet had broken the throttle cable and the vehicle would not start. Mr. Van Der Lubbe fired the shots. When the shot was fired he was outside the house and the vehicle was 60 to 80 yards away. When Mr. Britton got out of the vehicle he said he wanted to pick up his table and longdrop and Mr. Van Der Lubbe kept on nutting off to get off the property and told Donald to get his scummy (I said criminal) mate off the property as well, he was referring to me and at that time I was still sitting in the wagon. There were no threats that I can remember made on Mr. Van Der Lubbe by Mr. Britton. After we found the vehicle wouldn’t start again I said to Donald to get back in the ute and we got back down to the road and went to a neighbouring address to ring the police. I have stayed on the property with Donald before he moved off.

Cross-examination by Mr. Brosnahan.

Mr. Knox weren’t you there a few days earlier with Mr. Britton and another person?...(Fireman, John Massey) We were not on the property, we were on the road. Have you known Mr. Britton a long time?...About two and a half years. You’ve seen him get exited and angry when things don’t go his way ?...Its just like anybody, if nothing goes my way I’d get nasty too. I generally try to calm myself down. You have a history of violence?...Only once, which I will say I was sentenced for. Donald Britton can certainly get pretty angry and pretty exited can’t he?...Yes, sometimes. Sufficient to cause you some fear if it was directed towards you?...I’d just walk away. Britton didn’t tell you until you were nearly at the property that he had been served with a trespass notice that day?...We were half way up the River Road, going up towards Upok when he told me. When you looked up and saw Mr. Van Der Lubbe that was after the first shot was it?...Right. Wasn’t he by the railings out beside his house at that stage?...No, it was not until the second shot was fired that he moved to the railings. I will show you something, you made a statement to the police that day?...Yes. Have a look at the document now shown to you. Firstly have a look at this document, look at page 4, the signature on page 4....Yes. Is each page initialled by you?...Yes. Please have a look at the bottom of page 2 about four lines up from the bottom, I’ll read it, "I hadn’t seen Van Der Lubbe at that stage but then I heard a shot and heard it hit the vehicle. I looked up and saw Van Der Lubbe with a rifle by the railings outside his house." Page 3 I said to Donald lets bugger off and get out of it. Donald said he won’t shoot us again and that’s when the second shot went off.

By now the car was facing towards Van Der Lubbe, see that?...Yes. Does that not show that when you first saw Mr. Van Der Lubbe after the first shot was fired he was standing by the railings outside his house?...He wasn’t quite by the railings, he was making his way to the railings. Wasn’t it after the first shot that you first saw Mr. Van Der Lubbe?..Yes. Didn’t your statement taken almost immediately afterwards say, "I looked up and saw Van Der Lubbe by the railings outside his house after the first shot, wasn’t that when you first saw him?...That’s the first time I saw him. That’s the first time I saw him, wasn’t he by the railings, is that when you first saw him?...When I looked up and saw him he was standing nearest the rail and when the second shot fired he got into a crouched position by the railing then. He was by the railing on both times but one time you saw him standing and the next time crouched down?...Yes. But he was standing by the railings?...Yes. After the second shot there was an exchange between Van Der Lubbe and Britton wasn’t there?...Yes. That was when you heard Van Der Lubbe say, fuck off the property or I’ll shoot the wagon up?...Yes. You heard the exchange between Mr. Van Der Lubbe and Britton?...Yes.

Cross-examination by Mr. Brosnahan.

Brent Stuart Gray.

That is my full name. I am a Police Constable.

Were you monitoring the emergency calls on 19 May?...Correct. Is there a tape that runs or records all of those calls?...Correct. Is that done so there is a permanent record of calls on the 111 frequency?...Correct. To your knowledge was there a tape running on the day Mr. Van Der Lubbe rang you?...I assume there would have been. It would be fair to say you received a call from a person who identified himself as Mr. Van Der Lubbe who was extremely agitated and upset?...Yes. Very clearly seeking assistance from you for something worrying him?...Yes he was in a disturbed state. He was plainly ringing you for help?...Yes. At the time he rang you did hear him say that Donald Britton was breaking into his property?...Yes. He had rung you before Britton had actually got on the property when he was at the stage, according to the caller, breaking in?...Can I confer to my notes. Do you have any recollection independent of your notes?...The call came through and Mr. Van Der Lubbe was saying that Donald Britton is coming into my place. He has a gun, and he was virtually stuck on those words, he is coming to get me, he has a gun. He also said he is breaking in?...As the call got into more depth, he said, he did say, he is taking the gate off the hinges.

Did you dictate shortly after this incident to a typist your recollection of the call that you had?...Directly after. When you dictated that didn’t you say that the person was saying, Britton was coming into his property to break in?...I did say that. Isn’t it clear from that Constable that Mr. Van Der Lubbe was calling you and saying Britton was in the process or about to break into the property, that’s what your wording was?...That is what it says. Later on it says how he was breaking in by jemmying the gate off its hinges, right?...Yes. He told you that Britton had that morning threatened to kill his wife?...I don’t recall hearing that. Read your transcript....Yes. It was clear to you that the person on the phone to you felt desperately concerned his life was in danger didn’t he?...Yes That’s what he kept conveying to you wasn’t it?...Yes. Do you recall him saying, how can I defend myself, recall that?...He said I’m going to have to defend myself. To the best of my knowledge I can’t remember him saying, how can I defend myself. I recall him saying, I am going to have to defend myself, he said it a few times. He repeated it a few times and the phone just went dead. Do you accept the transcript is a paraphrasing of what occurred on the phone call which lasted from 9.07 and if you went straight after you hung up to do the log it must have finished at 10.09. Go to your own notes which will show the call coming in at 9.07?...Yes. You said as soon as you hung up you went to the typist and dictated the transcript and your notes say it is 10.09?...She was in the Control Room. You confirm you do recall him saying, I’m going to have to defend myself?..I do recall that. He told you before his threat to kill his wife had been made by Britton that morning?...Yes, reading this, yes. Then he came back after the silence and said that he had fired two shots?...Yes. ("Everything is OK now.") And that Britton had threatened to kill him Van Der Lubbe with a 222?...Correct. So it was very obvious to you Constable that the caller was fearing for his life?...Yes. Was desperate as to what he could do to protect himself?...Yes. And was telling you as his lifeline as it was that he had to defend himself, that’s what he said to you?...Apparently so. And that it was clear Constable that although the person had rung the police for assistance, there was nothing the police could do in the timeframe that existed to help him was there?...Correct.